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'The Philippines chose me rather than my choosing the Philippines'

A conversation between Tully Moss and Nancy Reece Jones

Watch this Zoom interview or read the transcript below.


Transcript

Feb 13, 2022


Nancy: In a nutshell, can you tell us what your career has been these last 50 years since we left Williams nearly 50 years ago?

Tully: I've had three phases to my career, and it's been a process of evolution rather than intention and planning. The first part of it was right after I went to Wharton Business School at the University of Pennsylvania. I got an MBA there in 1979 and then I went to New York City for consulting. So phase one was management consulting. I did that for about 30 years and then an opportunity opened up in Asia, primarily to teach, and so I went from Consultant Tully to “Professor Tully,” as they called me.

I was not a full professor with any university, but the Asians, with their characteristic respect for education, nonetheless called me Professor Tully.

Then there was a third phase or part of the evolution where I added executive coaching to the consulting and the teaching. Again, that's been almost exclusively in Asia. So that in a nutshell is what I've been doing professionally for the last few decades.


I think you answered my next question, which was, ‘what came first: your interest in leadership development or your interest in Asia, and how did these come together to give you a unique niche in the world of executive coaching?’


Let’s back up a little bit and say that Asia came first. It may not have sounded that way from the evolution that I just portrayed, but right out of Williams I got what is called a YALI grant to teach at a Chinese College in Hong Kong: so I taught at Lingnan college (now Lingnan University) in Hong Kong. I did that for two years and then came back for the MBA at Wharton. I set up my own major in marketing strategy [at Wharton], and then at the consulting firms in New York City, added to that business unit strategy, mergers and acquisitions work, organizational effectiveness, and a lot of competitor analysis also.

So Asia actually came first, but I didn't think that was going to be a career; I thought that was an interesting thing to do after Williams, but the career was going to be business. As I said, things evolved differently.


What was it specifically about the Philippines that captured your attention and made you decide to live there?


Actually the Philippines chose me rather than my choosing the Philippines. I had a Filipina friend whom I had known for several years when both of us worked in New York City. She worked at Citibank, and I was working for what is now Willis Towers Watson, a large consulting firm. In 2002 her father passed away quite unexpectedly, so she went back to the Philippines to run the family business, one of the largest human resources services firms in the Philippines. She was aware of what I had done as a consultant and seemed to think maybe I had a thing or two to say, and she engaged my services to help her figure out what she needed to do with the family business.

So that got started in late 2002/early 2003, and at that time I went to the Philippines for two weeks, which became three weeks the next time, then four weeks and four months. Finally, I just threw in the towel and ended up living in the Philippines for about eight years.

There are certainly things that I've come to appreciate about the Philippines and, in particular, about the Filipino people. The Philippines is an archipelago of over 7000 islands stretching sort of north to south in east Southeast Asia, and so it has beautiful beaches that are supposably some of the finest diving spots in the world.

What I really appreciated [about the Philippines] were the people: they have maybe the finest service mindset in the world. They may not always get things right, but, more often than not, they are striving to please you with their service. There's also an extraordinary dedication to the family there. It is amazing the sacrifices that they will make for the well-being of their families. There's a resiliency on the part of the people. The Philippines is one of the most disaster-prone countries on earth: it's in the Pacific Rim of Fire, so there are volcanic eruptions and earthquakes and, on average, about 20 typhoons—we would call them hurricanes—a year. There's a lot of flooding, mud slides, high winds, and a lot of property damage when those things really blow through as they did just a month or two ago. But the Filipinos with their beautiful smiles, they are so resilient.

Finally, what I came to appreciate was the women in the Philippines. There is an international accounting and auditing firm, Grant Thornton, that has studied and analyzed the degree to which women have senior leadership positions in companies. By their calculation, 40% of the senior leadership positions in the Philippines businesses are held by women—as opposed to 23% in North America. That gives you some idea that something is going on there.

The female CEO of the company that I worked for in the Philippines saw those Grant Thornton results and said, “Oh, I don't believe them. It's just an old boys club here. Tully, go out and find the truth.”

So I did what we as consultants do: I analyzed some data and I interviewed a bunch of people. The data that I analyzed said, no, Grant Thornton is right; but the interviews offered some additional insights. Yes, it's true in aggregate that female Filipinos do hold a high percentage of leadership positions in business but, among the largest companies—the big conglomerates—it is still an old boys club. In the interviews with 15 female, Filipina executives, there were some interesting findings. I came to have tremendous respect for them: they have a wonderful balance of humility, hard work, and dedication to the people that work for their companies. These were wonderful women.

If I could highlight just one woman (I’ve met her but she wasn’t one of those I interviewed), that's Maria Ressa, who won the Nobel Peace Prize a few weeks ago. She's the first Filipino to win a Nobel Prize. She went to Princeton and was the lead investigative reporter for CNN for a couple of decades. She won that Nobel Peace Prize for standing up for human rights and the truth. She’s taken a lot of hits for it and has been arrested several times. I think she’s still under indictment by the government—various parties in the Philippines resent her and are still after her—but that gives an indication of a kind of inner strength and dedication to doing what's right that is exhibited by a lot of women in the Philippines. So again, the Philippines didn't choose me, but I've come to appreciate several things about the country.


One thing I know is that COVID caused you to leave the Philippines and resettle in the U.S., first in Massachusetts and now in Colorado. It might be fun for you to give a short version of what happened you, which is what happened to a lot of people who were overseas during that strange time. I’m most curious about what it's been like to live in the States again and whether you expect to stay stateside or move back to Asia.


Those are a lot of questions, but I'll start with the first one: what drew me back to the U.S. Again, this is part of evolution rather than intention. I had actually signed up for and gone through a lengthy process to get a retirement visa to work in the Philippines. A requirement was that I leave the country for three consecutive weeks. So I started out in mid-February of 2020 to Japan where I was supposed to attend a partner conference. I wasn't in Japan more than a day or two and they canceled that conference because of COVID. I was in a beautiful city, Kyoto, which I love, but the infection started to pick up in Japan, so I went to Seoul, South Korea. I wasn't there two days when word came that a Christian group of South Koreans that had been in Wuhan, China had gotten infected with COVID, and the infections were starting to pick up in South Korea. I started to look for alternative countries—I still needed to be out of the Philippines for three weeks—and I thought, well, what are my options, and I thought of various destinations in Asia: Singapore, Thailand, and so forth; I thought about Guam, which is a U.S. territory in the Pacific. I thought about Hawaii and finally threw in the towel and said I'll just go to Massachusetts. I'll stay with my sister for what I thought was going to be a couple of weeks.

I was in Massachusetts, I had a ticket to return to the Philippines mid-March, and about three or four days before I was supposed to get on the plane [to return to the Philippines], President Trump announced a suspension of flights between the U.S. and Europe. I thought, “It's only a matter of time before flights are suspended Asia.” So my supposedly temporary stay in the U.S. got extended and extended and extended, and the pandemic got a lot worse in the Philippines, where initially the numbers were very small, but the numbers spiraled upwards pretty dramatically.

So I thought, “Well, I'm at a stage of life here where I don't know when this thing is gonna end, and so I'll just put a stake in the ground and stay here in the States.” I grew up in Kansas City—and I will have to say this for our classmates, please, no more jokes about Toto not being in Kansas anymore—but at any rate our family vacationed every summer in Colorado, so I have a great love of the mountains and feel right at home here in Colorado. So I decided to put my stake in the ground here.

What's it like being back in the U.S.? It's actually great. It’s easier to get around: you know, I do have not great memories of it taking, I think it was close to four hours, to go six miles one day in the Philippines 'cause of the traffic. Manila traffic is notorious! I don't need that anymore!

It’s easier to get things done here, and there are blue skies here. A good deal of Asia is pretty polluted: there is a lot of air pollution, a fair amount of water pollution. So, it’s also so nice to be back for all those reasons. There can still be things that I miss about the Philippines, but on balance, it’s good to be here.


And you're still working as well, part time, right?


I am. I'm like the rest of the world and have been hanging on by the internet, but I have continued to teach people in Asia via Zoom or Microsoft Teams. I've continued to do executive coaching via Zoom or Microsoft Teams, and it has surprised me: it's just about as effective as being there in person, which I never would have believed, but it it's worked out very well for me.


I'm going to switch gears a little bit: did you have a favorite professor at Williams, and if so, who was it, and what was it about that person that really piqued your interest in what you've done since then?


Actually, there are three professors that I would highlight for having had more impact than others.

One would certainly be Peter Grudin. I took English 101 and I think 102 from him. He certainly inspired my interest in English literature and in the English language. I went on to become an English major. So he got me started. So that's professor number one professor.

Number two would be John Hyde in history. I took History 101 from him, and he sparked an interest in history but also alerted me to the challenges of really determining what the heck actually went on in a particular historical moment and how there can be controversy and the difficulties of actually getting at the truth. I have maintained a very keen interest in history and continue to read histories of various eras and biographies of various historical figures. So, he, too, was something of an inspiration.

Then I owe big thanks to number three, and that would be Peter Frost, also of the history department, because it was through him that I got that teaching position in Hong Kong. He had the connections with the individuals who were managing a fund that sent over two people every year to this Lingnan College in Hong Kong. I was the recipient in 1975. There actually were only two colleges: Williams and Yale were the only two ones they picked people from, and I got it in ’75. I owe Peter Frost big thanks for that.

Those would be my big three. There are others that I would give honorable mention to, several others: Clay Hunt in English, Peter Berek in English, Charles Thomas Samuels in English. So there were a number of them who were either kind to me or inspired me in one way or another, but the big three would be Peter Grudin, John Hyde, and Peter Frost.


Excellent. I've got one last question for you. The times we're going through now are quite unsettling: given the prolonged pandemic, political unrest of this country and others and the changing climate, where do you find hope, solace, or inspiration in the face of uncertainty and disruption?


Well, probably from several different spaces or places. One, having lived abroad, there are typically a couple of things that can happen: one, you learn about the place where you lived—in my case, the Philippines and Hong Kong—and you come to appreciate the wonderful attributes of places like the Philippines, but at the same time you come to appreciate your own country more. That certainly is true of my perspective on the United States.

It is, shall we say, a contentious moment in the United States. You know, I think there's more to this country and there's more for us to be proud of, and there's more strength in the country than I think a lot of people realize. Now, does that give me solace? Well, it gives me hope at any rate, and you know, I think beyond that, I do I get solace.

There is a thinker named Ken Wilber who said that the world kind of divides into two (at least I've heard him quoted as saying, I haven't actually read that he said it): there are people who believe there's nothing else out there, you know, once you die, that's it, and then there are others who say there's something. It’s very much a focus of mine, and does it give me solace. Well, it definitely gives me a focus that's beyond the noise that's going on in the world right now, both in this country and geopolitically.

So that's that, and I live in a beautiful place: just this afternoon I came back from a walk in the Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs, and it's just fantastically beautiful there. Colorado is fantastically beautiful: the sky here is this wonderful, deep blue. I mean, how sad can one be when the sun is shining so brightly here? How sad can I be?


I'm glad you added that part about how much you love hiking and being outside, because as one who lived in Colorado for 30 years, I can say that Colorado works its way into your heart. This has been terrific. Is there anything else you want to add?


I think for the time being that's all.


Thank you so much, and best wishes to all classmates!


'The Philippines chose me rather than my choosing the Philippines'
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