Renewable energy advocate, law prof leads by example

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Renewable energy advocate, law prof leads by example

A conversation between KK DuVivier and Nancy Reece Jones

Get in touch with KK DuVivier here: kkduvivier@law.du.edu

Recent articles of note:

Mobilizing Microgrids for Energy Justice

26 STAN. TECH. L. REV. 250-315 (ISSUE 2) (JUNE 5, 2023)

Preventing Wind Waste

71 Am. U. L. Rev. 1 (2021), U Denver Legal Studies Research Paper No. 21-14

Moat Mentality: Onshore and Offshore Approaches to Wind Waking

1 Notre Dame Journal of Emerging Technology 1 (2020), U Denver Legal Studies Research Paper No. 20-3

Transcript of the conversation, August 14, 2024

Nancy RJ: Hey KK, it’s so good to see you! We reconnected pretty much decades ago [when] your kids were small. You were living in Boulder, and I think I was in Arvada at the time. It's been years now—your daughter has kids and you’re living in Boulder not far from them, which is really cool. I just wanted to reconnect because I have heard about your work with environmentalism and environmental law. We just talked briefly, and I want to hear more about what you what you're up to. I think other people would be very interested in [hearing this] as well.

KK: Thanks, Nancy, great to see you again too! As you said, I think my daughter was a teenager and now she's getting closer to 40. I have two grandkids—a six- and nine-year old—and they live up the street, so that's great. You and I talked a little bit about what's important in life. Obviously to me, especially because my kids lost their father when they were pretty young, [it’s important] that I'm close to them and helping them.

Another thing is I am still teaching, and my specialty is renewable energy law. I'm a professor at the University of Denver College of Law. I've been teaching for almost 35 years but lately I've been focusing more on what I can do outside of academia to make a difference. I've been doing a lot of climate work. In June, I was in Washington, D.C., working for Citizens Climate Lobby, a bipartisan group, lobbying for legislation. [I’m] just trying to get people aware of climate [issues] because I feel sort of like Cassandra saying, “Don't take that Trojan horse in,” right? Except no one was listening for a long time, but now that their homes are burning… Fortunately, I've escaped any of the fires, but I have been evacuated here in Boulder. Now that we're having floods and fires and all these things, I think people are waking up to, “Well, those scientists actually maybe knew what they were talking about.”

My daughter works at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and does sea ice modelling, so she's very aware, she’s been to Antarctica and to the Arctic to look at that, so it's very close to home. I was aware of it before, but I feel like I need to help the next generation deal with these issues. Because I'm a lawyer and I've seen how things work, I want to go where the solutions can be done on a global scale. Each of us can do our little thing, but if we get policies like the Inflation Reduction Act then they can make a huge difference across the board. It's hard for everybody to pay attention to all the details, so it helps if there's some grease on the skids to help people do the right thing.

I just moved into this house on my daughter's street last October, but I've already completely electrified my house, which means that I got rid of the gas heating and I have what they call a heat pump that both air conditions and heats. I’ve got a heat pump water heater; I've got solar panels; I've got a hybrid. I don’t have an EV yet, but I'm doing all the things that I can do. I even have an induction stove—I love it. Anybody who thinks they're wedded to gas (and breathing the emissions) should try an induction stove because they're very responsive. They're not like old electric stoves. I even have an electric fireplace.

I feel like I've become, not a prophet, but an advocate for these things because I think they're all so important. It's nice that [I’m able to teach and write] about renewable energy and cutting edge [issues]. One of my latest articles was on micro grids—I don’t know if you know what those are—but with all the power shutoffs in California and things like that, they are a way for you to continue to have power. Because our life has become so electric—even our toothbrushes, right?—so that it helps to have some kind of backup. I think there's going to be a huge revolution with electric vehicles. I don’t know if you’ve heard of a Tesla power wall—that’s what people put in their homes—but your vehicle will be like three or four Tesla power walls so you're driving around with batteries all the time. In an emergency, you could just connect that into your house. They're working on that technology now.

I coordinate a group called the Colorado Solar and Storage Coalition, mostly scientists. My son’s a scientist doing revolutionary battery work trying to get electricity from carbon radiation. These people are always talking about these wonderful cutting-edge technologies so I'm so excited about the technology. We just need to get the policy to catch up and make those differences.

I'm super busy, I'm still working, I'm still teaching, because it's fun. I love working with young people and I get to work with smart young people, so how can you beat that! One of my colleagues said he taught English in high school, and the kids were climbing out the window, but when students are in law school, they're paying attention!

Nancy RJ: That’s terrific, this is excellent. I'm really inspired [by] the fact that you're still doing this work and that you've raised these two bright young people who are following in the same path. I was in the Environmental Studies Coordinate program—it wasn’t a major, of course, and you were in Geology. I just thought maybe we could end you with what [we were talking about earlier] when you gave a really nice tribute to Bud Wobus. I thought maybe we could end with that.

KK: Sounds great. Yes, I want to just thank Bud—hopefully he'll be watching this, but we'll see… even if he doesn't, many of you know Bud. We were the first coed class, as we all know. I was the first woman geologist after undergrad in [a worldwide] French company. They didn't even know they'd hired a woman. [With a name like] ‘KK DuVivier,’ they just thought I was another Frenchman. So, I've been sort of a pioneer in this, but Bud was always so encouraging. I’ve heard other people might have been discouraged [by being told that] “You're not supposed to be [here], women aren't supposed to be [geologists].” Bud even took me on a field trip to British Columbia; we were in a mine where the miners were not happy to have a woman in the mine, but he was always so encouraging. I want to say that he made a big difference for me.

I thought geology was going to be my bread and butter: I worked in museums and then as a field geologist, then I went to law school. For a while, English was my bread butter because I was a double major English and Geology, but now I'm doing this law [work] that combines them both. That's the beauty, too, of Williams, in that you have this liberal arts education, and you can keep pivoting into different positions and still be learning all the time, which is what I love to do.

Nancy RJ: Absolutely. And you're still writing all the time, so your English major is really helping too. Because [I’m] someone who] believes so much in the power of the word. Thank you so much, KK, for sharing this. I wish you all the best. Maybe we'll see each other in Boulder sometime.

KK: Sounds good! Thanks, Nancy, great to see you and a shout out to everybody in our class.

Nancy RJ: Take care, bye now.